Unleashing Your Hidden Potential in Corporate America

In this episode of The Human ROI, Elissa Mahendra sits down with Jessica D. Winder,  Chief People Officer, career coach, and author, to explore a critical gap in today’s workplace: the hidden potential sitting inside organizations and why it so often goes unrealized.

Jessica shares her perspective from both sides of the table, as an HR executive and career coach, on why high-performing professionals are frequently overlooked despite delivering strong results. The conversation challenges the belief that hard work alone leads to recognition and instead highlights the real drivers of career growth: visibility, advocacy, and positioning.

Together, they unpack how talent decisions are really made inside organizations, why leaders default to external hires, and how internal talent often goes untapped. Jessica also offers unfiltered, practical strategies for individuals to start advocating for their careers and actively campaign for their growth, clarifying what they want to be known for, communicating their impact, and building visibility both inside and outside their organization. 

For leaders, this episode is a call-out to rethink how they identify and develop talent. If you’re not actively uncovering and activating the potential already on your team, you’re leaving real value on the table.

For individuals, it’s a wake-up call: your potential isn’t enough. It has to be seen, understood, and claimed.

🔗 Explore More

Connect with Jessica Winder:
→ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessicawinder/
→ Linktree (all resources): https://linktr.ee/HiddenGemCC

Connect with Elissa Mahendra:
→ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emahendra/
→ LinkedIn Newsletter: https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/the-human-roi-7396293873473523713
→ The Human ROI Podcast: https://thehumanroi.buzzsprout.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello, friends, and welcome to the Human ROI Podcast, where we explore how leadership, culture, and talent drive enterprise value. My name is Alisa Mahendra, Human Capital Strategist and the creator of the Human ROI Framework. In each episode, I sit down with leaders, operators, and change makers shaping the future of work, where we unpack how value is really created inside organizations and how you can capture more of it in your own career. Let's get into the value. Welcome back to the Human ROI, the podcast that explores talent, leadership, and culture, and how it ultimately shapes enterprise value. I'm your host, Elisa Mahendra, and today I'm joined by Jessica Winder, Chief People Officer, author, founder of Hidden Gem Coaching. Jessica helps professionals and executives really understand what their value is and how to navigate key moments in their careers. Jessica is also known for her bold, no nonsense voice on LinkedIn, where she talks candidly about leadership, about workplace dynamics, and how to break those molds. A big part of her work is called Hidden Gems Inside Corporate America in her LinkedIn newsletter. So, Jessica, welcome to the Human ROI. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Anytime I hear my intro, I'm like, oh my goodness, it makes I need to be, I need to read my intro more, I think. But I am excited to be here. This is gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

You're like, that's me? Amazing. Like, oh, I did all of that. You did and more. And I only skimmed the surface. Uh so what I like to do, I love a good origin story. So I'd love to start with two things. One is I read that your first job was roller skating in the Texas heat. And what you learned from that is about kind of power dynamics in the workplace. So I'd love to learn a little bit more about that experience and what it taught you.

SPEAKER_01 1:55

So yeah, I grew up in a small town in East Texas, and my first job was working at Sonic. And to know me to is to also know that I'm not very coordinated. So I felt a lot. But one of the things I was thinking about this, like the thing that I learned at Sonic really was customer service. It was a customer service boot camp. And it was also the second part, it was it was who you knew or who knew someone in your family. So small town, East Texas, everybody knew my parents. I would literally go to people's cars after I had fallen or gotten their drink wrong or did something wrong. And they would say, Whose daughter are you? And I'd say, I'm Robert's daughter, and they'd be like, Okay. And they then they would like soften up and be nicer to me. Or if I messed up, if I immediately said, I know that I messed up or I'm sorry, I dropped this, I'm gonna go back. So getting ahead of the problem, but it was literally customer service boot camp. I still pull from that time of okay, how do you fix this? How do you get ahead of them? I coach people on this in interviews. Before somebody even brings up something they think could be wrong, just go get ahead of them, bring it up before they even bring it up. So I learned a lot. Um I still have some scars on my leg from that, from that job.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

I bet, I bet, and and some scars in your heart, which you're learning from, right? And that's why I love origin stories because so much of what happens in our early years shapes how we think about work, how we relate to work, power dynamics, what happens in the workplace, the type of work we want to do. And so as I look and I want to share your book, The Hidden Gem Within, uh, and I'd love to know the origin story behind the title, The Hidden Gem Within. And then maybe if you can also give us some insight into the illustration.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

Yeah. So when I think of the hidden gym, and I think there are so many gyms in corporate America, it's people who are highly capable. They are absolutely capable, but it's untapped potential. So they're under-recognized. So think about that. They're highly capable, but they're unrecognized, and they're just sitting there and they're almost like a gym in the dirt. That was literally my concept when I was thinking of my business name in the title of the book. Like, you are a gym. How do we make people see that? And it's something that most people think, I'm just gonna put my head down, I'm gonna work hard, and somebody's gonna recognize me. And I'm sorry to say that that's not how it works. You need to be vocal, you need to be talking about it. And most people that I have found that I'm coaching that are gyms never tell anybody, they just do the work. And then they wonder why they don't get recognized. And so that was the thought behind the company name and the book. And then the illustration on the book is someone jumping because I think you have to first realize I am a gym and then get up and move. Like movement was the whole thought behind it that you can move around, you can decide. You don't need somebody to come and magically touch you and say you're ready. Um, that's not how it works. Like you can decide that you can do something different.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

I love that. And as the daughter of a jeweler, I love the gem analogy, right? I so I'm all over it, right? You're a diamond in the rough, and Jessica's gonna help shine you up and make you, you know, put you into a great setting and show you off. So I love that. And and why do you think, in your experience, right, you've coached hundreds of people, you've worked inside organizations. Why do you think that talent is being overlooked when they have gems in plain sight? It's easier to look externally.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

I think a lot of times it's easier for people, and we've heard the sayings, I want new blood, which always makes me think of a vampire. I've heard leaders say, I want new blood in here, I need somebody, new eyes. When really, did you ever go look at Sally over here and ask her opinion or if she could do this job? Probably not. Because a lot of times I have experienced this myself where I was in a job and I was there for three years and I had moved roles, but they always saw me as that first role. They never saw that I had grown or that I at the time was taking like my HR certifications. I was doing all this stuff, but they always saw me as junior level. So that's part of it is that people get this human nature locked in that this is who you are, and they don't see you as someone that could do something different. And so then we don't tap that talent internally because we have a locked view. And then another thing I want to say is a lot of people are overconfident. So the people that are overly confident are normally people that are very vocal, and then the people that are the hard workers doing the job don't express or don't verbalize all the things that they're doing. So one of the things that I coach people on is telling people don't just say XYZ, I finished this project. Say this is the what I did that's gonna have an impact on the business. Always business impact. Think about that. How am I the return on your investment? You invested in me, and this is how I'm going to impact the business. And most people don't think that way, and they don't talk that way.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Yeah, it's interesting. I'm thinking back to a past guest that talked about, which I thought was interesting, when your birthday starts with 19, you're not used to the public visibility necessarily as much. And likely this generation has boomer parents who reinforce this put your head down, work hard, and it will be rewarded because that was the day that they knew because they all got pensions, because they all had retirements. And that's just not the way of the world today. And in your book, I think there is a lot of great gems in there, but there's one part where you're like, take a chance. Yes. And then when you're disrupt HR talk, you say, I had the audacity. So talk a little bit about that because I think your point is there are people out there that are very audacious and maybe don't have the credibility underneath it. Whereas you've got these gems who are just silently doing the work and not getting the return on the investment they're making in the organization.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Yeah. So one of the things to your point, my dad worked the same job for 30 years. He got a pension. He got up every day at five o'clock in the morning, he went to work. And so he very much taught me this mentality, and it was what he knew was that you go to work, you work hard, and you will be rewarded for it. So my dad now has a pension. He's still on their health insurance. It's it almost feels like when I talk to him, I'm going back in time. Because that is not all that would be offered to no one today. Like that's just not how it works. So he looks at me and he's like, Oh my god, you always drop job hop in and da da da. Like I blow his mind quite a lot. But it's to your point, it's just a completely different ball. There is no pension, there is no loyalty. His company years ago, he unfortunately had breast cancer. His company stepped up and paid for all of it. That is unheard of. Unheard of. And when I say all of it, I mean medications, I mean travel, I mean because he had been there for 30 years and he knew the CEO personally. They were friends, they literally take care of each other. And it is a very small town mentality. Unfortunately, that is not the world we live in anymore. And so you work for a company, you do what you need to do, and then you move on to something else. And so in the book, I talk about having the audacity or the willpower to say I can. I call it an anointing. People think someone's going to anoint me, and then magically I'm going to Cinderella and I'm going to be in the leadership team. No, I once gave a presentation on why I deserved a promotion. And people are like, You are crazy. I got the promotion. It saved me probably six to nine months before they would have promoted me. But I I basically went to them and said, look at all that I've done, look at my impact to the business. And I had the audacity to say, I'm not going to wait nine months. I'm not going to you tell me I'm ready. I'm going to tell you I'm ready. And that that does take a lot of guts. And I want to preface this by saying that earlier early in my career, I don't know that I would have been this bold. Obviously, the the the older, the more experienced, you know, I got, I was able to speak up more. But I say that to say, even if it's in a direct one-on-one meeting with your manager and you say, I want to talk about my accomplishments, start there.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Yeah. When you think back, you know, you didn't start out this audacious. It was always there, but you didn't let it fly.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

Do you do you have a moment that you can remember that it really changed for you where you said, no, this is enough. I need to start advocating for myself. I to your point, it was always there.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

I I had to taper it down. But I definitely think I'm I'm trying to think. I think there was a moment, and mind you, in my early career, I had a great mentor who taught me everything that I knew about HR. And she was the one who told me, Hey, I think that you're ready. You can start speaking up. And so I want to point to that as like I did have a mentor who believed in me enough to tell me, speak up. Like now's your moment, here's your time. She would literally throw me in situations that to be quite honest, I was not prepared for. And she'd be like, You'll learn, you'll figure it out. And so that gave me confidence because I wasn't ready. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Yeah. Uh I want to dig in there because I think there's a fallacy of, and I've been victim to this myself, you know, earlier in my career, where you're saying, I will be ready when or I will, if I was only confident enough, I would do the thing. But what you just said and what now we know is no, you're not you're not ready. You go and do the thing, and then you be get confident because you did the thing. Yes. So how do you turn that light on for your coaching clients when they are coming to you without the confidence, but they have the credibility. Yes. And how do you turn that on for them so that they go for it anyway? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 11:01

So it's funny when we first started, I said I need to read my bio more. One of the things that I actually have my clients do is go read, actually read your resume. Read it. And read it. I literally have had one person that I was for 30 days. The next 30 days, I need you to wake up and read your resume and read all the things that you've done because something in you feels like you secretly got here when really look at all the work and all the education and all the things that you did. It wasn't. You didn't sneak in here and somebody's gonna find you out. You know what I mean? You deserve this, and to read your resume and think I deserve to be in every room that I enter. So I would say start there is like really understand what you've done. And then the second thing is to um, and it doesn't have to be a mentor, I actually think it could be a friend, it could be a family member, but talk to someone about it. Because sometimes we have all of this, and I am I am very guilty of this the jumbles in my head of things. And then when I say it out loud to somebody, I'm like, no. So even verbalizing it, I think, does help us.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

Yeah. I think that's right. I my mom has always told me I have monkey mind because there's just all kinds of stuff going on in there. Yeah. It's the mental gymnastics you go through. And I I do think that helping say it out loud helps you refine it and really challenge your own point of view because I don't know that a lot of people would be able to answer what's your point of view on X, even within their own specialty.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

And even just saying it out, like once you say it out loud, feel it in your bones that I can do this. And I want to equate it because I I I think this analogy helps. Is I have always been someone who has struggled with my weight. And I would say when I get to this number, I'm gonna be this. And I it was always a never, never number. I have always made it up. It never made sense. It was never based on any facts. It was something I just made up. And I think we do that in our careers. One day, six months from now, I'm going to be different, and then I'm gonna be a leader. Well, what what what's different in that six months? So I would ask you if you're listening to this and this something you're thinking about, I'm gonna be a leader when tell me what's gonna be different about you then. Is it you've you've finished a course or you finished a major project? Or if it's none of that, if you can't actually verbalize what's going to be different, then my challenge is you're already right now.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

Yeah, yeah, that's great advice. And again, I'm thinking about something that someone shared with me uh around confidence versus certainty. Yes, right? It's like, no, I do know what I know. Yeah, and I know what I know.

SPEAKER_01 13:31

And what you don't know, you can figure out. I believe that to be true too. I have been in rooms that I had no business being in, and I was able to figure it out. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

And I think that's a skill that not everyone possesses. I think you have to be willing to not know something, but it's like the the everything is figure outable. Yes, right. You have to have the confidence in yourself and the certainty that if put in any situation, you can figure it out. And so it it you have an interesting perspective though, Jessica, because you've been the HR leader inside organizations and you've been the career coach, right? You've seen both those sides. And I think you're able to give your clients a perspective about how talent decisions are actually made in organizations versus how people think they're made. And so, what insights do you share with your clients about that kind of dynamic inside organizations?

SPEAKER_01 14:25

Yeah. So for the people listening or watching right now, I'm gonna give you a caveat of this is the way it is, this is not the way that it should be. Because I I say this a lot when I do social media because I'm I'm not promoting that this is the way that it should be, but I'm telling you the facts. And I've been in those rooms, I've seen those decisions, and a lot of people think that promotions or any of those things are based just on your marriage. This is what you did, and this is the outcome, and that's not true. It's politics a lot of times. It's who knows you, who knows about you, who can verbalize what you've done. That's another thing. Who is going to advocate for you? And so you need to honestly need to be campaigning. And it's sad to say it, but it's true. You need people to know how you are having an impact on them. So if you work with a business unit, do they know that if you wouldn't have done this, they wouldn't have met their deadline? Does the next person know that you've saved the company? Does the finance team know that? Does the HR team know that you are a great leader? So these are the people that are going to be in the room. The wording I use, you need to be campaigning because it's not all merit. So one, you need to be competent, you need to do your job, but then you need people to know all of these things. And that's the part that people miss. They do the job, but nobody knows it. Nobody's advocating for them. Their name comes up in leadership meetings, and people are like, she's doing great job. That's it. Nobody, because you haven't told people, I want to move up. You need to say those words. I want to be on a leadership team, or I want to be a part of this project. Or even if it's lateral, I want to go work in another department, or I want to go back and get my MBA, and this is going to be the impact of the business. Say what you want. People are not mind readers. I've learned this also in my marriage.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

That's a great analogy. A closed mouth does not get fed. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so it's it's interesting. You were talking about who's saying your name when you're not in the room, who knows your story. And I think something you said earlier, which certainly resonates with me, is when you're somewhere for a long time, they know you as the first thing you did, not where you are today. And there could be 10 years that pass by between those two times. So when you campaign inside your organization, that's one thing. But if you know that you are a hidden gem within an organization that has too many politics and you're ready to make a move, what's your advice for people who need to start campaigning and be known outside of the four walls of their organization?

SPEAKER_01 16:48

This is why I personally built my personal brand on LinkedIn, because it doesn't matter where I work, what I do. I now have given people perception of my brand. So when people interact with me, for good or bad, they feel like they already have an insight on me. And so I built that. So now I have told people, these are my thoughts on performance management, these are my thoughts on hiring, these are my thoughts on HR. So they kind of have an insight on who I am. Whereas without that, then you're waiting on someone else to voucher you or for you to get into in front of someone. So before I'm ever in front of someone, they already have a perception of me. And so part of that is being vocal, even if it's externally. So I don't think that everyone has to be posting. I know that gives people the hippie jeebies to be like, let's go post on pretend. Some people don't want to do that. But there, I actually started recently hearing this verbiage on TikTok, and it was a corporate celebrity. So are you a celebrity within your corporate workspace? So whether that is in your current organization or in your field. So the person that was talking about this was um an engineer. And she talked about how she goes to engineering conventions, she's in her local community, she has made herself a quote unquote engineering celebrity. And if you're in that, you know, in that hemisphere, you know who she is. So think of it that way. I've made myself an HR celebrity. If you're an HR, you know who I am. You might agree with me or disagree with me, but you know me. And so think of it that way. Like, how can you niche yourself down, even if it's not doing like branding on LinkedIn?

SPEAKER_00 18:18

Yeah, I like that. I like that because it's gives language to something that everyone knows. Everyone knows what a celebrity means, and you can now understand how to position yourself in those spaces. Absolutely. That's amazing. So I want to circle back to the premise of the show, which is the human ROI, where talent, leadership, and the ecosystem design become the human ROI inside organizations. But so many organizations are leaving that ROI on the table. So, for those listeners who are inside corporations that have decision-making authority, what advice would you give to those leaders to not leave that ROI on the table?

SPEAKER_01 18:56

So I have had to do this at two different organizations that they brought me in. To be quite honest, they were having some financial difficulties. And so they were thinking about how do we better utilize everything that we have? So it was a team, honestly. So there was one person that was doing kind of like the tech operations, and I was doing the people side of it. And my first thing was, do you even know the talent that you already have? So let's pull up everybody's resume. Is someone that's doing HR, would they be better suited to go into sales? Have you asked them? How can we cross-train people? And almost I consider it like a net. Once you start cross-training people, and this person started in HR, now they're in sales, or someone in sales is now doing something else. You have a net because this person understands the other team like nobody else could. And a lot of companies don't think to do that. To my previous point, they look externally. So thinking about the talent that you have right now and what could they be used for. And a lot of the big companies do this by doing um like cross-training programs. But if you're a smaller company, you could on you have even more free will to just move people, to just say, Hey, raise your hand. Who wants to do this? And then to ask people. So not only were we looking at people's resume, we had meetings where we said, hey, these are some holes that we're trying to fill, these are the knowledge gaps we're trying to fill. Does anybody know about this? And you would have been shocked by the people that were like, I gotta do that. Like, I could do that, raise their hand, but you would never have known it because some stuff isn't on their resume. Because obviously their resume is tailored to the role that they're in. So we need asking people. We had one person who we had no clue was like a master language person, knew it's different languages. And we had a client that knew one of the languages and went, you would be amazing to talk to this client because you can talk to them in their native tongue with them never.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

I love that because the hidden gem concept, it's not just the hidden gem of a person, but it's the hidden gem of their skills within an organization. And not a lot of organizations do it, but this idea of the internal talent marketplace, which is I have something to sell, you have something to buy, and how do we match up those skills internally? Because to your point, if you're a small organization, you can make those decisions pretty quickly, but you have to be willing to ask the questions. Yeah. So as you're coaching these organizations and leaders, do you find any pushback on that in terms of being open or setting up? Yeah, and because it's always time.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

Always, always there's always pushback of it would be faster. And I don't know where we got this narrative that external is faster because think about it. If somebody, let's just give an example of this person with the languages, she had already been there for years. She knew the business, she knew the leadership team, she understood the the product. And so, how would it be faster to find somebody external instead of get her trained up in uh customer support? That's way easier. She understands the product. So I I think we have to fight this narrative that training someone new is easier when really your internal talent, and obviously I'm not talking about the people that don't want to be there that are leaving, but the people that actually want to be there want to learn more. So use that to your favor.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Yeah. Um, if a listener today is feeling like after hearing this, I am a hidden gem. I do have a lot to shine, but I haven't either campaigned and I need to start, or I have can tried to campaign and it's not making any difference. What advice would you give them in terms of advocating for themselves?

SPEAKER_01 22:23

First thing I would do is if if you're listening to this and you think I'm a hidden gem, nobody knows it. First of all, I hope that's what you're thinking. Second of all, go write down what do you want to be known for? This is always the cue that I give my clients. What is it you want to be known for? And it might take you some time. You might want to be known for a couple of things, but you need to have a true sentence, like a true compact sentence that you can say over and over, this is what I want to be known for. So for example, I'll say, I have already said I want to be known for burning HR down to the ground and believing in good trouble. So that is my statement that I tell myself. This is what I want people to know me for, that I have made a difference in this way. I have a client who right now wants to be known for operational changes. So she's within an organization that is going through a merger and acquisition. She wants to be known as the person that's going to bring them through this to the other side and that truly can people. And that is her statement, and she's making decisions based on that statement. And so that's why I think that's the first step. What do you want to be known for? And then hone in on how can you get people to know you for that. So for her, for instance, she is now like leading the team of like the new systems and integrations. That was not what she was supposed to be doing, but she wants to be known for this, so she volunteered to do those things. So you have to know what you want to be known for. And a lot of times we get conflicted. Well, this leader likes this, so I'm going to tailor it to them. And then this leader likes this, I'm going to tailor it to them. But is that helping you with your objective?

SPEAKER_00 23:47

Right. And I think we're all familiar with the traditional coaching models around like find your values, understand what motivates you. But I what I appreciate about your approach and the way that you talk in your book and the way that I've seen you show up online and personally in person and events is that oh nonsense, like use real words, let's talk candidly to each other. And not just what do you value, because that can be hard to put into words, but what do you want to be known for? So I really appreciate that perspective. And the other side of the coin, the other side of that equation is the leaders.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:21

And so as a leader in an organization, you and I are aligned on you need to treat your people like investments, not liabilities. So if you want the greatest return on your investment of your people, what should leaders leave with when they listen to this?

SPEAKER_01 24:36

My biggest thing is I always leave with curiosity. So you need to be curious. I when I coach leaders, I always ask them, ask questions before you ever give your opinion. So if someone comes to you and they're saying, This is what I want to be known for, this is what I want to be doing, the first question should be why? What are you gonna get out of this? Like, what's your long-term plan? Be curious before you ever give strong against opinion. Because sometimes they want your feedback. So maybe it's an angle you don't see. Another thing I want to point out is that last year I was part of a leadership series at Yale. And one of the things that I learned from that series is that we tend to lean so hard into these are your areas of improvement. I don't know how many times throughout my career it's been like, these are the things that you could be better at, Jessica. Instead of saying these are the things that you are great at. So the whole thing that we did, and it was a women's leadership forum. There were 30 of us from all over the world, and it was all based on what are you good at, and we're gonna lean into what you're good at. We were never throughout the whole time, we never focused on these are your areas of improvement. So I want to throw that out there because I think people, leaders are always, well, this is where you need to improve. Instead of saying, you are an amazing public speaker, I'm gonna put you in front of everyone I can get you in front of. You know what I mean? Like change your narrative of how you're thinking about people.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

Yeah. And I love that too, because I mean, I what I've seen over the last maybe 10 years is a move, a shift towards strength-based learning, strength-based development. Yet, and we don't have a whole episode time for this, although we could, which is the performance management process, it is 100% about you did these things well, but here's all the things I need to tell you that you need to do better so that I can rate you as average or a three on a five reader scale, right? So for another time, but as leaders, but as leaders uh have those conversations to really understand where is their zone of genius and where will you get the most out of them? And as we kind of wrap up our time today, because I I I feel that there's more that we could dig into, I wanted to say if there's a leader inside an organization, or if there's a leader on their own who is really looking for how do I showcase my zone of genius? How do I become visible inside or outside my organization? And how do I start a campaign for themselves? One, I know that they can pick up your book. Yeah. And we'll put that in the show notes. But is there another way that people can get in contact with you if they're interested in learning more or working with you in the coaching side? Absolutely. I would love to coach.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

I'm um definitely taking on new clients right now. So the best way would be to go to my website, hintongymcareercoaching.com, and there's a way for you to get in contact with me. And then I am very active on LinkedIn. So even if you send me a message on LinkedIn, we can set up time to chat. But I love talking to people, even if it's just a you want a quick coaching session on how to ask for promotion or how to ask for more money. I actually coach people on that quite a lot because people are very incredible asking for money. But yeah, please reach out. I would love to chat.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

Great. Well, I appreciate the time and exploring what human ROI means in the context of your own career and the hidden gem within you. Uh, and I look forward to continuing the conversation. Thanks for joining us. Thank you. If this episode made you think differently about how value is created inside organizations and the return you're getting on your career, share it with someone who needs to hear it. Subscribe wherever you listen, follow along on our LinkedIn newsletter, and leave a review if it resonated. Thanks for investing your time. And until next time, keep investing in what creates real value.